IrishFreestyle

I thought they were the same thing? For the oldies on here can you clarify the distinction between the two?

Jim.

 Sorry Jim,

I'm probly kicking around as long as you so your not a total oldie.

In im defination, I would consider Rodeo as in compation, such as the recent euros in Spain or Worlds in Canada last year etc

VS

Where as "Freestyle" or "Playboating" as is usd to be called is random paddlers all over the world doing there thing, be is the likes of Steve Fisher / Sam Ward charging on the huges waves in Aficra or a group of mates doing having a blast at there local feature.

"níl a fhios agam........"

actually rodeo would be old school as you would well know about it Jim talking paddle spins enders and good old air guitar

but recent euros would probably refer to freestyle.....hence its in the title.....

now playboating would be any random trip and definitely refer to non competition.......

as for being dead well thats just speculative.

Thanks for the clarifications. Personally, I'm still working on the single pump, as a prelude to the double pump. After that, who knows?

Anyone know how the 'Helix Before I'm 40' guy is getting on?

Jim.

Well speculate away........ This is a judgement free zone!

"níl a fhios agam........"

Now i may not be a playboater but i once was.

when i started it was rodeo with big boats and big moves, enders, pirouettes , or even cartwheels.

then the boats developed rapidly and it became playboating but it was reffered to as freestyle for competitions. And blunts and pan ams hit the waves, and holes were the realm of tricky whoos and the air loop apeared. I rememeber seeing my first air loop at the worlds in sort 2001 and it was immpressive.

but like the slalom scene of the eighties and nineties a fun comp with everyone having a go and partying hard after gave way to gyms,cross-training and paddlers travelling to improve for international competitions.

This may be a bad thing for upcoming paddlers wanting to try freestyle as the see paddlers "training" at features istead of just playing.

But remember irish freestyle has improved immensely from the new attitude to training and competiton, moe kelleher is consistently hitting up in top ten and kim is goin from strength to strenght.Plus the rest of the team which put a lot into it with little reward.

But you can always hog gower with a guilt free front surf, thats soul boatin.

Paddle spins and air guitars have definitely been off the score sheets for a while. I propose to bring them back!

On another note: I think most of the Irish team are still just doing freestyle for the craic and we nearly got the gold for winning the party at the Europeans, (just knocked off first place by the French). Anyone that thinks that Freestyle is about training and getting the hardest moves, please just enter the competition so we can prove we can still PARTY!!! And if you do a lot of it, you might get better at it, which is fun too!

 xK

Lenny has put it far better than I did, and this is the angle I was coming from.

"níl a fhios agam........"

I always thought it was just semantics with people shying away from using the term "playboating" as it suggests that it's not to be taken seriously.

As for freestyle being a general term for expressive fun sessions; I can see the point - just like the "slopestyle" notion it is about that very thing - style. Where "styling it" is people going out and trying to do something for their own sense of acheivement. From that point of view "rodeo" as a term for competition where runs are planned and, as Lenny said, flushing off means reduced score is probably fair enough.

As for being dead.... I've never been around the competition scene or had much interest in it but it is nice to see people do well in competition. The reality is though that it's just more interesting to watch someone going big than doing something formulaeic.

I guess that is probably down to the scoring system and the fact that the big moves are high risk for flushing. Not that I have a clue about how the scoring system is applied!

"Freestyle competitions  are dead. Freestyle moved on, and left this stuff behind. This no longer accurately reflects freestyle."

Since the second of the quotes in the original post is mine, I should say this:

I'm not involved in competitive paddling. I hold no stock in arbitrary measures of 'goodness' which become internationally recognised. Although, having competed competively in sport previously I understand the attraction to an extent.

What I meant has been pretty much said by others: I would rather watch guys pushing what's possible on big waves than see how many pre-determined moves can be made in 30 seconds – that's a matter of practise. Sure, if you've got natural talent it will be easier, but it's still repetitive, boring and doesn't reward innovation.

I'm with Corran.

Cheers,

Ross

P.S. My original post had the addendum 'Maybe?' at the end of it. I wasn't making a definitive statement; just musing. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. By definition, these competitions cannot reward originality.

The full quote:"It could have become what big wave surfing is, or what skate boarding is, or what these big air contests in snow boarding are. And instead its not, its this super technical little side show, and its unfortunate" - Corran Addison

I'm with Corran. 

Rodeo (Freestyle competitions) and Freestyle paddling are meant to be different.

Freestyle paddling: Is all about having fun, mucking about on a wave/hole, trying to huck big and new moves, with the only risk being a bit of a beat down if your on a particularly big wave.

We all do this, whether it be trying to learn our first cartwheel or hitting a helix or something new. Thats all freestyle, and its alive and well in Ireland. just go to CLifden or Gower or countless other spots around the country and check the line up.

Freestyle competition is just that, a competition. It is a measure of someones kayaking ability as well as their mental ability to perform to their potential on demand. All competitions are a measure of a persons abilty to perform. Thats what its about.

The moves invented by Freestylers trickle into Freestyle competition relatively slowly as the moves can't be nailed consistently, even by their inventors.

If you can do a move 60% of the time, you will probably miss the move if you try it in a competition. Risky stuff.

Freestyle competition is trying evole into something that is more exciting to watch, moving away from consistency. Now, for the 5 paddlers in a final, each has 3 rides, with the best ride counting. This gives the incentive to paddlers to go large with risky moves that have high points rewards, and even if they flush they have another 2 shots at it.

While Freestylers are leading the way in the sports evolution I think Freestyle comps are very important for the sport, in terms of being a measuring stick for both pros and ordinary boaters so as targets can be set and achieved and, internationally speaking, are not dead, there are over 200 ppl doing the world cup circuit in Europe at the moment.

We would all love to see comps on good dynamic features tho, so as shuvits are not seen in a winning ride.

The other question is, is freestyle competition dead in Ireland?

There have been relatively small turnouts for team trials and nationals in recent years.

While fun events get better participation.

Go big or go home.

That's a comment I make to myself and a couple of unfortunates who happen to be around every time I go "play boating, freestyling or rodeo" It's great to see people going big to their own level but seeing experts go big is just class.

I've only just seen this thread as I've been in "Costa del dry as a bone" for the last 3 weeks on hols.

Firstly thanks for bringing this up.

Freestyle, rodeo playboating is alive and well it's just the competition scene that's not doing so well.

Seriously no disrespect to the competitors in the Europeans as they are all better than me but the youtube footage i've seen is the most painfully boring drab pile of crap i've ever seen. (and i like freestyle)

Major comps on features like that are doing the sport a diservice.

Outside of the top few paddlers the overall standard of freestyle in Ireland is pretty poor in my opinion. Reasons like poor feature quality count for a lot but there are other reasons.

I think as an ordinary joe showing up for a comp i would hope to have a bit of crack in a division that suited my skill set / age group.

get to see the top guys do their stuff in the 15min heats format.

and with any luck get a little advice or coaching on the day too.

Sounds like a lot to expect but it isn't really.

If the competition scene to survive it needs to be constantly developing new blood.

Forget about running international rules at Irish comps take a longer term view and use rules that will help develop the standard of paddling here. When a team is picked they can go off on their training camps and train on international rules ( after they have developed a better skillset )

Introduce classes like Junior m/f experts and sports. Adult m/f experts and sports, masters, vets.

When the experts heats / finals are running get a head who has a clue to commentate properly. Name moves, describe how to do them etc instead of Thump thump thump coming from the speakers for half the day.

Outside of competition day have informal training days.

these can be a s simple as one of the expert class (or sponsered) paddler simply posting here that for one session every so often they will be available for feedback at a feature.

I'm in a lucky situation that I can draw on some talented friends for advice but not every body is as lucky as me and a session like mentioned would help break the ice for a lot of folk.

"Put your money where your big mouth is and go and organise it yourself " is what I'd be saying to me right now and diservidly so.

I will eventually but for now i have a bit much on my plate with babies kids family life in general.

Sorry.

What ever happend to the "I will Helix before I'm forty Guy" well i'm still 39.

I,ve worked up to a feelix on one side. i,ve had very little water time over the last 5 months and have other previously mentioned distractions but will get back to posting soon.

Hopefully a few more folk will give this move a go as it's really not that unobtainable to your average joe .

Never test the depth of the water with both feet.

Place your votes people...................

http://www.irishfreestyle.com/node/3420#comment-4751

Rodeo died the second that competeing was more important than the party the night before the rodeo, thats when it turned into freestyle.

Freestyle is not dead the rules have just got more and more biased towards awarding the pro paddlers for landing amazing moves in competition and has forgotten about the grass routes which builds the average paddler into a pro paddler.

Freestyle will continue to die if it does not become more fun and the rules are changed to allow your average joe bloggs to go home after a competition feeling he has achived something.