Is Dublin a safe place to paddle...
Is Dublin a safe place to paddle, or is it worth the hassle?........
2 weeks ago a small number of us were paddling at sluice, and due to the low water levels, lovely location and perfect weather we decided to go for a swim down the sluice, we left are boats in the second eddie on river right up on the rocks. About 60 seconds later as we were swimming down through sluice we seeing two members off the traveler community who just poped out from god knows were rummaging through are kayaks which had dry bags with car keys and phones etc. its was no more than one minute since we left are boats on there own, and if we had took one minute more there's no douth that are stuff would have being gone and possibly even are cars..
And also last Sunday with a nice flow we decided to run the river from sluice to strawhall. With the recent spate of break-ins at sluice car park we tried to get a spot close to the the road for which would be a little safer and harder for the thief's to do there thing.
With the shuttle done and the safety parking completed, we started are nice paddle and were having a great day until we got to Wren Nest weir.
As we approached the weir we could here the shouting and chanting of local drunk youths and adults from the river right (Clondalkin) side of the river.. As we paddled down the weir these assholes thought it would be great fun to throw cans, bottles and rock's and we soon became the target of up to 20 drunking assholes, When we arrived at Strawhall we came across two members of the Gardai and we explained what happened and we also told them that there would be other groups coming down very shortly who might get the same reception.
We drove up wrens to see what the outcome would be, when we got there we met some other members of the guards who were dealing with a separate incident involving something else. The two guards who we told never bothered to even have a look or say anything to these drunks. And as we told the other members of the force they hardly even listened, We could have easily pointed out most of them to the guards and they could easily have arranged for someone to walk the five minute track from liffyvally to pick these yobs up and press charges for assault or whatever the charge is for throwing a bottle of alcohol at someone on a river.....
With nobody to help what will this kinda thing lead to. And with the summer only starting and more and more people using the river for antisocial and leisure purposes is it really worth the hassle.................
Hi G O'Reilly,
As a resident and local paddler to the strawberry beds I understand your concerns.
Unfortunately, this issue is not merely confined to the Strawberry Beds, but a problem associated across Ireland that has plagued the kayaking community for decades. I've even heard of boats been stolen off peoples cars during daylight hours in city centers.
It is neither a problem associated to travelers as there are none in the area, but is instead is a social trait that has worsened in recent years.
The local residents association who are the foremost voice in the area are well aware of this problem. Unfortunately, the land boarding both sides of the river is privately owned so enforcing public laws and the developing the river banks (in terms of; path walks, a local ranger, etc) is extremely difficult.
Plans for development along the river have recently been made by FingalCC.
These include; redevelopment of shackletons mill and annalevia, a publin walk between lucan and chapelizod and the provision of ramps to reduce car speed in the area.
Kayakers themselves can mitigate such issues in the future:
- Hiding and placing all valuables out of sight in parked cars
- parking at anglers rest and strawhall carparks (which provide cctv security)
- Encouraging lucan to provide cctv at sluice carpark
- reporting local fishermen who do not possess a licenses to garda
- reporting all break-ins to lucan garda st.
(if you wish to forward opinions or have any queries to the local RA i can e-mail you contact details.)
my $0.02,
rich.
with regards to the scumbags at wrens they'll be there most sunny days during the summer, they usually come in from the right hand river bank and absolutely love tormenting kayakers. I've seen them so many times they've jumped onto kayaks, throw shit at kids in kayaks, glass bottles everything...
i was once taking a few nonkayakers from sluice to wrens and was met by about 30 scumbags at lucan weir who threw as many rocks at us as they could, it was like a competition very scary cause your venerable on the river,
but what could be done about instinces like these ??
no offence to any members of the garda but with issues like this i've noticed ye are pretty useless, maybe at wrens an effort could be made to block access on the right bank!!
Another place to watch out for glass bottles and rocks is at the old railway bridge just up from Wildwater. Twice I've been doing flatwater there recently and had rocks fired at me. The lads then ran the banks when they missed and were really vicious with their throws. It was actually kinda scary beacuse you're just literally a sitting duck on the river. I had to paddle up further and wait over an hour until they'd given up before I could paddle back down. Just look out for anyone lurking behind the pillars up by the bridge. Also some of these guys have started drinking and swimming around there so its probably best to aviod the area if you see a group messing around.
Don't know if anything really can be done about it though. From Ger's post it looks like the gardas aren't really bothered.
On another note, last summer by the Boyne, there was a huge contingent of travellers parked all along the get out. They usually come here every year for a month or so. Sometimes they swim around by Slane weir so just to be careful when paddling down there and park appropiately.
Nope, I'm afraid that its not.
Dublin has a ridiculously high crime rate (a lot of it goes unreported). I have lived in other countries and Dublin has a problem, not just for kayakers, but in general. There are lots of reasons/causes, I'm not going to get into it, but dont say its "a problem associated across Ireland", that's not true, and doesnt help to bring about a solution. Its far from the norm.
However, I do agree with Ritchie on the point he made about mitigateing such issues in the future.
" dublin has a ridiclously high crime rate" thats a nice sweeping damning statement there. based on hard fact and stats of course. sound. those of us from dublin appriecate that one.
sluice's location means that theres a higher chance of these things happening. dissadvantaged areas around it clondalking, lucan(the new part), blanche.
if it was located in dalkey these things(probably) wouldnt happen. its just the nature of the beast.
Last weekend at the docklands polo competition a few scumbags kids showed up with nothing better to do then stir some trouble, despite the place been jammers with polo people, they still tried to nick stuff!
They were cycling right around the boats, paddles looking for stuff to steal. They did manage to get away with some thermals and kept trying to steal the polo balls throughout the day!
Thankfully the guards were around on sunday - eating ice-creams and enjoying the polo games! while kids were stealing gear (again) right behind their backs! eventually the guards did tackle the gang of s****s after they were throwing rubbish in to the polo games and started jumping in too!
It is based on fact and I'm technically a Dub myself.
"Official statistics from An Garda Síochána for 2001-2005 show that the overall headline crime rate for the metropolitan area per 1,000 of population is the highest in the country." (by a good bit too)
http://www.garda.ie/statistics/report2005/annreport2005b.pdf
Its ironic that my correction on what I deemed to be a sweeping statement about the entire country, ended up with me being accused of making a sweeping statement. 
Anyway these points are moot, we all agree that there is a problem, the things that Richie suggested should be how we proceed.
It is based on fact and I'm technically a Dub myself.
"Official statistics from An Garda Síochána for 2001-2005 show that the overall headline crime rate for the metropolitan area per 1,000 of population is the highest in the country." (by a good bit too)
http://www.garda.ie/statistics/report2005/annreport2005b.pdf
Its ironic that my correction on what I deemed to be a sweeping statement about the entire country, ended up with me being accused of making a sweeping statement.
Anyway these points are moot, we all agree that there is a problem, the things that Richie suggested should be how we proceed.
Lads I hear people talking about the guards like this all the time and i sympathise, but u are their bosses. if they dont act on ur behalf, report them to the ombudsman, if they dont do anytihng go to your TD and so on. I;ve been down this road several times (i.e. the guards doing nothing in a circumstance like this) and like it was said before if its not reported then its just as bad as it could happen a second time.
dublin is a built up area (more so than anywhere else in the country) and as such there is a high rate of crime. thats just a fact of life unfortunatly. i've lived in other cities (some capital cities) around the world and infairness we have it good in ireland. i cant tell ya what to do if u find urself in the circumstances mentioned above but i know what i'd do and it would involve some river debris (a 2 by 4 or something) and my river knife.
as for parking at the sluice, its true its getting worse, but there are alot of poor students available at the weekend maybe they would watch the cars for a few quid... its unfortunate but worth not having to pay the excess...
t
Having recently tried to report a case of fraud to the Guards to which the actual reply i got was " What do ya want us to doo about it" I'm now of the firm opinion its because they are all mucka's.
If someone defrauded Patsy from BallyGoOnWithYe out of his pint in a round it would be a night in a cell and clever use of some rubber hosing, marched up to the district court in the morning only to recieve another night in a cell and reintroduction to said hosing.
But sure when in Dublin don't the rules change a wee bit. None of this having to hinder the dealings of skobies when you can meet a much better class of folk out on the 60kph motorway.
What we need is jackine Guards who can speak sKoby. Maybe even part skobie, I'm all for equal opportunities and what not.
On the plus side because the guards are too few it's never been easier to take the law into your own hands. Last year a couple of teenage skobies were making off with one of my kids toys. When i confronted them they trash talked me mistakenly thinking I would be restrained from assaulting them by the laws of the land. I probably was but seeing as there is little enforcement of those laws the mistake was theirs.i got my kids toy back and a warm fuzzy feeling that the balance of justice had swung in my favour. Not the law I hasten to add only justice. Right who's for starting up a vigilante death squad ?
Never test the depth of the water with both feet.
The "Shipment" for River Security is in Monday!
Follow link: http://www.lidl.ie/IE/home.nsf/pages/c.o.20080519.p.MultifunctionalTool
Lads bring your video camera / camera with you and make sure you get a good shot of those giving you bother from the water and how the kayakers with you are reacting to it i.e. dont be giving abuse back; simply try to ignore it if possible. It will make good evidence against them if something does happen and will cover your ass too.
They'll be looking a claim against you if you decide to knock one of them out as tempting as it is and they'll probably have 20 witnesses to prove it too.
Dont be tempted to get into a fight with these people as thats what they're looking.
If the problem persists make a copy of your video/pics with dates and times and inform the council, Gaurds and local paper if there is one and make it known that this is happening.
If you're paddling as members from Uni it may be helpfu to tell the Uni whats happening and explain theat the Gaurds aren't actively helping you and that you'd like your Uni to spek on your behalf to the Gaurds, council, paper etc.
Thats all I can think of for now. Just dont give up and report everything. Its the only way to make people notice.
Good luck!
For all you extreme liffy paddling needs 'Skoby recording device'.
http://www.i-canoe.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/27/products_id/455
Best I've heard yet was from a guy I met Downhilling in Cloon last night.
Takes 20 mins to get to the top of the track from the carpark and a little over 1.5mins to get back down.
In that time some gits nicked the catalytic converter from his car. Go figure ?
Never test the depth of the water with both feet.
This is not just a 'Dublin' problem as some people may think. Nor is it a city problem. While on the water paddling in Galway (city and county) over the last few years I've had rocks and bottles thrown at me, fishing lures fired at me, played chicked with idiots in speed boats, and the now almost 'usual' verbal abuse from people of all ages. What I've noticed is that in almost every instance the people involved were drinking. So maybe therin lies the problem...
Carpe Diem
What I've noticed is that in almost every instance the people involved were drinking. So maybe therin lies the problem...
in the words of the great philosopher homer - "alcohol: the cause of and solution to all of life's problems"
:)
Folks
I currently run courses within WWKC on the Liffey and the toe-rags at the iron bridge and Wrens have become a problem over the last couple of years. Last year one of our instructor helpers got his finger broken when the group was stoned at Wrens.
I have had stones and bottles thrown at me in the last couple of weeks.
At the Docklands Canoe Polo comp we had stones thrown at us when we dismantling the goals. These kids were around 10 years of age.
At Limerick last year we had people peeing on top of us and stones thrown at us.
At Carrick-on-Shannon we had stones thrown at tents, people tried to burn our kayaks, wallets were stolen.
At Slane Bridge and Stackallen on the Boyne cars have been broken into. We even had a locked roofrack nicked of a car. (By the way I did not hear of any cars been broken into when the travellers had moved into Slane Bridge - this might be because we all stayed away).
At Sluice I have had my car broken into and my clothes were stolen. They were found nearly 3 miles away at the Deadmans. Only lost a camera and some money.
This has only become a problem in the last 5 years. I cannot recall so many incidents in 24 years of canoeing.
The more times we place complaints with the Garda and take a log of the incidents the more chance we have of taking this up with our local representatives and the press.
Safe paddling folks
Adrian
Some good replies so far,
Ritchie said "Unfortunately, the land boarding both sides of the river is privately owned so enforcing public laws is extremely difficult." I have to disagree with you there, Basically what your saying is that the fact these idiots are trespassing on private land "which is also breaking a law" they have the advantage of it being harder for the guards to deal with them... This doesnt make any sense.. And its only making an excuse for the two guards that couldn't be bothered to do the job.. i understand you don't make the law but the type of land your assaulting somebody from shouldn't make a difference to the way the guards deal with it....
And well said Jim Keheo..
"Jean" are unfortunate incidents seemed to happen on the same weekend, but just different areas, the two guards who were eating ice-cream while you were being robbed must have radioed in the report that they were doing good ice-creams down near the docks because are two guards seemed to disappear really really quick..
It takes up to 4 years to become a plumber and only two years to become a member of the Irish Gardai Force.. so we cant rely expect much from them to be honest..
And carrying a video camera with you isn't such a good idea if your in the firing range of 20 rocks.. although it would make good evidence against them it shouldn't be necessary as 3 witnesses reporting the incident should be enough if are dumb force just cared a little about there jobs..
Bren i think we should go ahead with your squad............
G,
I didn't want to reply to this topic as its been draggin along for some time now and has lost all favour, but as you've quoted me.....
Firstly; you are correct in that crimes and misdemeanours comitted on public or private land are no different under law. However, enforcing these law are more difficult in private lands for a number of different reasons (unfimilarity, size of area covered, consent to access, etc)
Secondly; the liffey isn't even worth paddlin in low water (sunny weather) and this is when the offenders are out in force.....wait for rain.
I think, taking into account all of the above, a single truth has emerged...
Ireland is a shitehole of biblical proportions...
Did you not read my post..with stats and stuff?
That’s complete and utter nonsense, and lacks logic. I think Mr. E Hurst might be mistaken when he compares some tiny instances of anti social behavior in Galway to what I and others have/continue experienced in Dublin. I have 9 years paddling in Galway and the crime stats to back me up.Eoin has truthiness.
Yes there are incidents of theft, vandalism and the odd piece of antisocial behavior elsewhere in the country. However Dublin exceeds the frequency norms for the rest of the country, and it’s not down to population density either as stats are calculated per person. It’s a fact.
As I said earlier I am for Ritchies points on mitigating such issues in the future, that’s where the focus should be. Arguing that it’s not that bad or that Limerick/Galway is worse will get you nowhere.
And if you aren’t a big fan of Ritchie’s points, I think Bren gave some good suggestions also….Bren I’m only up for it if I get to wear a cape and my underpants outside my pants.
So to sum up we all think Dublin is definately a dodgy place to paddle, and the rest of the coutry is not much better!!
And the facts from Galway Seanie are that theres a 1 in 5 chance of something will be thrown at you when on the water in a kayak. Fact.
Still though thats not bad at all when you consider the plight of the Irish cyclist, guaranteed abuse every 10 mins in a city. Fact.
Carpe Diem
I'd love to know where you pulled that fact from, last time I checked the central statistics office weren't monitoring such things!?!
I've been paddling in Galway for the past three years and I can safely say that I've yet to have anything thrown at me whilst on the water!
well I've had 1 thing thrown at me in 5 years paddling in Galway so give it another 2 years lyncho and you can be part of the statistic group.
And as for cyclists, If they stopped cycling on the footpaths andread the rules of the road I'm sure the abuse would stop...
I think we should all move to Cork, I hear 3 out of every 5 paddliong trips down by the weir, the knackers will help you carry your boat back to the car!!! Maybe get them to educate the rest of their poor knacker kin elsewhere?
Right then its sorted. We'll meet in Liffey valley car park. So that we can sort out the Vigilante's from the passers by I'm going with Seanies suggestion of cape's and underpants on the outside.
Facial disguises are optional, paddling helmets a requirement.
An accurate description of the afore mentioned ( Skobie ) shall be distributed among the group so no innocent dog walkers shall be harmed.
If you are conscious of looking like a bit of tool with your underpants on the outside your mind will be put at ease when you see the picture of a Skobie. ( Burbery peaked hat,huge nike'y pumps and hidious shell suits)
As you can see we will actually attract less attention in our capes.
I have a 5 point plan
1. Organise a release ( large one ) from the dam.
2. Buy a box of Stella or other cheap brew.
3. Make up a couple of balls of tinfoil.
4. Throw them in the river just upstream of skobie congregation.
5. Run into skobie camp shouting your stash and beer have fallen in the river.
Job done, underpants retired for another day, rescue plan ?
Point and laugh
Never test the depth of the water with both feet.
Lads as usual everyone is looking at this from the wrong angle.
The only way to sort such socio-economic issues, as has been proven all over the world, is through education.
As such I would propose a proper debate on the merits of the many different types of said social education. I would also propose the setting up of 5 subcommittees to clarify any issues the public may have. Said subcommittees must of course be made up of best mates of FF/FG's main benifactors as is proven best-practice.
I really thought this answer went without saying.
(for anyone who doesn't get sarcasim...duh)
Polo/Scanno
New essential kit: Uzi 9mm
Alternatively / (legally?)
Ebay has a fine stock of (extreme) fishing catapults:
E1.25:
E4.17:
E1.25
...There's 8 pages of them, BB ammo too......Just point & shoot!
...There's 8 pages of them, BB ammo too......Just point & shoot!
surely the traditional rock would be adequate?! it has many advantages over the bb ammo too:
- more mass= more PAIN
- cheaper
- less expenditure means ye could buy fancy anti-scobie uniforms
- more readily available than said bb ammo, just put your hand in the river and you have one.
- depending on the area which you find the rock it could potentially carry wiels disease.
What a load of rubbish. Again. Do you know what a fact is?
In over three years paddling in Galway I've had a stone thrown in my direction once and had a misguided fisherman give me his opinion of river ownership once and have never encountered any other negativity towards kayaking or kayakers.
Are you seriously saying that every one in five times you paddle the upper or lower Corrib you have something thrown at you? Or are you talking total bollocks again?
I've never experienced the like of what the original poster describes, so I don't really have any ideas on a solution.
Ross
Ah Eoin I paddled with you every day last summer and the biggest hazard was the swans...
Are you sure these drunks aren't NUIG KC members ripping the piss
The most abuse I ever got was from some Rag Week enthusiasists offering to rescue me from my kayak on the Upper Corrib... cos apparently I was considered insane to be paddling not drinking, therefore unfit to paddle..
Everyone just move to Galway! 
Or do what Adrian Barber says and hopefully see some results.
never mind e-bay,
landers down in tralee have slingshots+ball bearings,bows and arrows,hunting knives and even guns if you want to take it that far
me,i like the cheap beer and tinfoil idea
