Easky: Permission to Paddle
Over the Christmas break, while on the Easky river we were spoken to by a person who identified himself as a employee of the land owner, on who`s river we were now tresspassing on.
This person stated that permision is needed before kayakers venture on to the river, the reason given was to avoid disturbance of salmon spawning beds. This occurred at the gorge section under the stone bridge. There was no aggro or confrontation, we took onboard what he had to say and left on friendly terms.There is a number in Easky that apparently has to be contacted,(will post it up).
Maybe this is common knowledge if so excuse me, but I was not aware of any access problems on the river at this time of year. Anyway just thought I`d post it up.
Tom.
Strikes me like it's just some dude trying to make a few bucks overcharging anglers on a good spot for fishing. I suggest quietly paddling through as we have always done. There is no need to be setting precedents phoning these chance-rs as you'll probably find they'll be meeting you to collect a fee next.
The sooner this waste of space of a government get off it hands and introduce a right to roam the better.
Fecking laugh those tourist board ads inviting Johny foreigner to come roam all these highs and lows. Yeah till they meet up with some "Bull McCabe" wannabe who sends them packing cause he hasn't got yet another subsidy prop-ted up by the self same people he's telling to feck off off his land.
Never test the depth of the water with both feet.
Tom
I have spoken to the owner of the land at the put in (the river right side just upstream of the put in bridge) a good few times, most often in mcgowans over a pint. He has no problems with kayakers using his land to access the river as long as they close the gate beside the river after using it - there was an occasion when it was left open and some livestock drowned when the river was high. I have never heard of a number to ring to get permission before paddling this river.
There have been some cases (albeit a small number - to the best of my knowledge) where fishermen have approached kayakers on this river regarding access, but not at this time as year as you have said.
I'm just wondering whereabouts on the river you were actually approached - was at the drop under the stone bridge as you described above ?
My understanding of the law (which may well be flawed) in this regards is that the landowner owns the river bed, or up to half way across the river if is borders his land, but not the water in it - hence the kayaker can paddle on the water. However if you need to get out e.g. for portage, inspection - this can raise a problem as you could now be trespassing. Hence if you can get on and off the water without problems and you don't get off the river onto the bank on the problem areas, you are OK. If there any legal types who know better about this, maybe you could post your interpretation?
My own view is to tread lightly during the peak fishing season, and avoid any agro with the fishermen, it probably works better in the long run. Live and let live.
Simon
As stated we were approached while on the bank under the stone bridge, we had just run the drop and were getting ready to move on. This guy said there had been a change of ownership and the new owner wants to be contacted in advance before kayakers go on the river.
The area involved according to him starts a mile down from the get on (bridge where N59 crosses the river) this is to supposedly avoid disturbance of salmon spawning beds. We got a telephone number, but i am reluctant to post it up as things may go from bad to worse.
I have over the years frequently paddled this river with no problems,fair enough during the peak fishing season I think paddlers should stay away. Maybe if there is a commercial salmon fishing operation on that part of the river they may be legally within their rights to restrict access, I dunno.
I think as has been stated if people thread lightly, close gates behind them, keep the group size within reason and the noise down, things hopefully should be ok.
happy days
Tom.
whats meant by "comercial fishing"?, i though it was a pay for licence recreational fishing ground. And its fair enough to ask us to stay off during fishing season when the guys have paid good money to be allowed to fish.
But to ask paddlers not to paddle during the rest is a bit mad considering the waters are generally rushing around all over the place at the time and does a plastic boat floating past relatively quietly make as much a difference to the spawns. Where do fish spawn in the eddys or on the river bed does anyone know?
We were stopped on the river a few years ago just below the grade four drop by a guy who told us "We were scaring the fish" and they would'nt go upstream to spawn, whilst trying not to laugh at him we apologised and carried on paddling on down the river. Far as i know situation with Easkey is the same as for the Bundoracha in Co.Mayo its a private fishary but they let paddlers use the river off season. When I say let i don't think the agreement on the Easkey has ever been as formal as on the Bundoracha.. Just what ive heard...
We are frightening the fish off now is it
Well if all those nature programes we've seen with bears linning the waterfalls are are not scaring them off I think its a good bet we won't.
There is a percieved problem of ye carrying parasytes on the hulls of the boats but that is much less of a risk than that guys own nieghbours releasing huge ammounts of nitrates or worse slurry into the river.
Really these guys are the dummies who don't realise we are on the same side.
We all want clean vibrant rivers as apposed to others who want to use them as suirs or block them up with hydro stations.
I'm ranting now.. AAAAAHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!
Needed that
Never test the depth of the water with both feet.
As far as I know Simon is right. Land owners cant stop you paddling past their land, even if they have lawfully charged fishermen for the right to fish irregardless of time of year, however common courtesy would suggest that we respect fishermen and so on. As long as a river is "Navigable", even if only by kayaks, anyone has a right to use it. The land owner only owns the river-bed half way across the river, not the river itself.
As Simon said trespassing is a different story at the get on and get of points you'd need permission as, on any points you get out and scout from. I don't know the river in question but it sounds like the fellow how approached Thomas cant stop you paddling as you don't put your feet on his land (It being a mile from the get on)
its pretty much all been said.
my understanding of the law is that what fishermen pay for is the right to fish from the bank(which belongs to the land owner), it is not possible to own the water! so you can kayak on the water without permission but may not touch anything else without permission ie, the bank. i usually find its best to avoid confrontation and ask permission, if you do not or cant do this please keep a low profile and leave things as they were found(i know this is generally not a problem with most people but it must be said)
It may seem like attitude but I can see no reason to ask permission to paddle.
Asking permission to cross land etc is a different story I would agree - maybe this is what you meant.
Currently, access agreements in Wales have been "torn up" by the WCA. Yes, the law is different - however, it is unclear exactly what the law is and with little political motivation to take on the issue (in a way, understandable) it's unlikely that this will change any time soon. There is however (I think) a bit of a change in attitude in UK boaters, especially since Scotland has been more progressive on the issue.
Why ask permission from people who aren't in the position to grant it? Why empower them to say "no"?
I hope no one sees this as a "militant" kind of stance, just realistic. In being realistic though you also have to be willing to go somewhere else sometimes. Like during fishing season on a river where a fishery exists.
Sometimes certain rivers are a breath of fresh air. Everytime I've been out to the (very fickle) White River in Limerick someone has approached the group and you're always worried it'll be unpleasant but is always a very welcoming local thinking we're nothing short of mad....
As for the "disturbing fish or spawning" check out the notes at the bottom of page 5:
http://www.welsh-canoeing.org.uk/050207manifestoEng.pdf
Tony
Hey tom. i was up running that river last year too and we met a fella with a shotgun and a dog. he was a nice fella. but he told us that these are private waters because they are paying for the use of them (how true that is i dont know), he also said that it would be in our best interest to stay off that river during the fishing season, unless you wouldnt mind being attacked by paying members.
I had always that that waters are free to everyone???!!!?!??!
Scooby